Question:I came across your article when doing research in the bible and trying to find an answer in why is the world so evil. Interestingly man is of course evil as it is evil to animals. No other animal on the planet will use another in the same way. So why can man?
I saw that you have quoted many bits from the Bible. I do agree that man was at the start a vegetarians as we know the garden of Eden is God's ideal and we are all non-meat eaters, thus no evil.
What I have come across in my study is that God said the following:
"...the Lord said in His heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil..." (Gen. 8:21).
This is after the flooding, when he allowed man to eat meat ... because that is all we had to eat but he saw that Noah enjoyed the meat. Nowadays we have lots to eat, I for one am a believer that eating meat is evil as we haven't got God's say to do so anymore as we can live without it.
You will see that the above quote came very early in the Bible, which would say to me that God left us to it as he saw too much evil.
You say that animal rights people don't understand God, but in the bible God himself hated man for what they have done:
God Himself says through His Prophet Isaiah: "...I will hide my eyes from you: yea, when you make your prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood...put away the evil of your doings from my eyes; cease to do evil." (Isaiah 1:11-16)
Again the word evil was used. Have you anything to say that killing animals is not evil (using the words not evil as quoted by God not by anyone else).
My question to you is why would God make us vegetarians at the start? Why would you call his ideal The Garden of Eden? Why would he continue to call us Evil when we ate meat or killed an animal.
In my opinion we are tested on this earth, it is very easy to kill an animal and eat it (just go to the supermarket) but it is very hard to say no and love all things, to make sure that you try to do no harm.
I think the latter is the one God wanted but you will say no it is not as it is the hard option for you to do. God gave us compassion to feel the pain for another, we can see that an animal is in pain, why would he do this in less he wanted us to understand that it is wrong to kill another (including animals). If he wanted us to kill animals he would not have made us feel its pain.
Look forward to your reply. I will leave you with this:
Humans and animals are equal and mankind has no advantage over the beasts. (Eccles. 3:19)
All professing Christians are to be vegetarians. In accordance with this teaching, Saint Paul says: "I will never eat meat any more, for I will not be the cause of my brothers' downfall." "The right thing to do is to keep from eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that will make other believers fall." (1st Cor. 8:13 & Romans 14:21 NEB & TEV)
I hope you start to see that God wants us to look after animals but not kill or be cruel to them.
Congratulations! You've followed the long line of false teachers talked about by Peter:
"Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures" (II Peter 3:14-16).
Yes, God made humans and animals to be vegetarians at the beginning. "And God said, "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food"; and it was so" (Genesis 1:29-30). But you make the foolish mistake of assuming that vegetarianism showed a lack of evil. It was the vegetarian Adam and Eve who committed the first sin and brought death into the world. It was the vegetarian Cain who murdered his brother Abel. It was the vegetarian world who became so evil that, "the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5).
You claim that God gave Noah permission to eat flesh because there wasn't enough plant life. Yet such reasoning is not given in the Scriptures. Once again, you demonstrate that you see only what you want. Noah and the animals remained on the Ark after it rested on the mountain for months. Noah sent out birds to see the world was ready yet and until the dove brought back an olive leaf, showing that vegetation was growing again, they remained on the ark. "Then the dove came to him in the evening, and behold, a freshly plucked olive leaf was in her mouth; and Noah knew that the waters had receded from the earth. So he waited yet another seven days and sent out the dove, which did not return again to him anymore" (Genesis 8:11-12). Even then they didn't leave; they waited nearly two months more. "And it came to pass in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, that the waters were dried up from the earth; and Noah removed the covering of the ark and looked, and indeed the surface of the ground was dry. And in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dried. Then God spoke to Noah, saying, "Go out of the ark, you and your wife, and your sons and your sons' wives with you. Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you: birds and cattle and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, so that they may abound on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth"" (Genesis 8:13-15).
The eating of flesh was given as part of the covenant with Noah. There is nothing in the terms which indicates it was a temporary measure. Quite the opposite, all the terms of that covenant are in effect as long as there are rainbows in the sky. Have you noticed that the animals still eat flesh? Have you tried convincing a lion that he would be better off living on a vegetarian diet? Their diet changed with the covenant as well as the human diet.
Now, shall we show the world how you play games with the Holy Word of God?
"Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom; Give ear to the law of our God, you people of Gomorrah: "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?" says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs or goats. "When you come to appear before Me, who has required this from your hand, to trample My courts? Bring no more futile sacrifices; incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies - I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; they are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands, I will hide My eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not hear. Your hands are full of blood. "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes. Cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, rebuke the oppressor; defend the fatherless, plead for the widow. "Come now, and let us reason together," says the LORD, "though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land; but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured by the sword"; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken" (Isaiah 1:10-20).
God was tired of Israel trying to play on both sides of the fence. They pretended to serve God by bringing the required sacrifices and celebrating the required feasts while at the same time committing all sorts of sins. Notice in the complete context you will not find God condemning man for the killing of animals. The blood on their hands was the "blood" of sin -- their guilt. Your fudging the Scriptures is transparent when people see how many ellipses you used in your quote.
"I said in my heart, "Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals." For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust" (Ecclesiastes 3:18-20).
Solomon is looking for why God placed mankind on this earth and what purpose we serve. He concludes at this point that it isn't to live on this earth because we all die. In this we have no advantage over the animals because we suffer the same fate. This is not a claim that animals and men are equals. Quite the opposite. Solomon understands that men are different from the animals because men are made in the image of God. "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God He made man" (Genesis 9:6). Unlike the animals, mankind will be judged by their observance of God's laws. "Moreover I saw under the sun: in the place of judgment, wickedness was there; and in the place of righteousness, iniquity was there. I said in my heart, "God shall judge the righteous and the wicked, for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work"" (Ecclesiastes 3:16-17). Eventually Solomon concludes what man's purpose is: "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man's all. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil" (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14).
Your quotes of Paul's writings are hilarious because you are so blatantly manipulating his words. You have to quote from different paraphrases (not even true translations) to find something that makes it look like Paul has given up the eating of meat -- which never happened. Both statements are conditionals:
"But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble" (I Corinthians 8:9-13).
In context, the meat Paul is talking about is not all meat, but meat sacrificed to idols. What Paul is stating is his willingness to restrict himself in regards to something that he clearly has a right to in order to not cause another person to sin against his own conscience. Paul is talking about purposely forgoing a personal right to help in teaching a weaker person. Romans 14 is about the same topic.
"Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men. Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin" (Romans 14:15-23).
But a willingness to change personal behavior to keep another person from offending their conscience doesn't change the fundamental fact regarding what is a right given to mankind. Paul also said:
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer" (1 Timothy 4:1-5).
Clearly, just being able to pull a few choice quotes from the Scriptures doesn't mean that the Scriptures teach what you desire. Actually all you have accomplished is to show that you are able to misuse Scriptures like Satan did in Matthew 4:6 in tempting Jesus.
As a side note, I find this particular argument, that we are only eating meat because it is convenient, hilarious coming on the heels of another animal rights activist who argued we shouldn't be eating meat because animals can defend themselves. You folks should do a better job coordinating your thoughts.
If it were true that we should eat animals because it we're only doing it out of convenience, then we shouldn't eat fruits and vegetables that convenient to eat, since all you have to do is go to the supermarket to purchase them.
If you don't want to eat flesh, that is your choice. But stop the pretense that you are somehow morally superior because you choose to forgo a God given right to mankind. And please stop pretending to be a Christian when you teach contrary to God and espouse the doctrine of demons.
hahahaha! you said it man made the first sin! And God said it was ok to eat meat because man is already sinful. I asked you to give me an example of God saying it is ok to eat meat before Gen. 8:21? You have not done this, why? Because you can not..I win that point!
You really think that you are going to heaven if you follow a book that is written by man after and said by man after Gen.8:21? You make me laugh. Of course I am better than you for not eating meat - I have a purer heart - I am more compassionate. I have the mind set to stop something that is killing my body..and hurting others. You know then meat industry takes food away for the poor - because it using 10 times the amount to make meat! I bet you don't think about that when you sit down to eat a steak from a supermarket (I bet you are overweight). Eating Veg and Fruit does not hurt it makes money for the poor actually!
Do you know that studies have show that kids at school with higher IQs are more likely to become veggies! And yes my IQ is very high - a gift from God. I use it to educate.
I think the guy that emailed you said that animals CAN NOT defend themselves that would make more sense - because of factory farming. I am pretty sure God would not like factory farming - heard of the words "playing God"!
Why would God give Cancer to thos that eat meat then and not to thos that are prue and eat only a vegan diet? Why would God make thos that eat meat overweight? Why would vegans live longer on the earth?
You really need to think am I eating meat for me or because God said I can? The answer is you!
I don't want a reply because we will see who is right when it is our time to face God - he will ask how many murders have you been responsible for? I will say none! you will say 10,000 animals, 1,000 humans (taking their food away). The lord will say back "take off you coat" in will be warm.
Good luck in life...please remember me when you are asked this question?
Since you claim a high IQ, I thought it best to leave your note unedited.
You continue to twist the Scriptures. God did not tell Noah that he could eat meat because they were already sinful. If such were true, then the sinners prior to the flood could eat meat, and such was not recorded. Besides, if being sinful allows the eating of meat, then by that reasoning we all can eat meat since, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
Thank you for proving what I suspected -- you do not believe the Bible is from God. Yet it is fascinating that though you claim the Bible is a book written by man you seek to justify your stance and claim you will be going to heaven and I to hell. But the concepts of God, heaven, heal, judgment, the Garden of Eden, the Flood, etc. are taught within the book you think is written by people like yourself. You even acknowledge that you will be judged by God. It is an interesting contradictory position. It is evident that you follow a god of your own imagination because anything found in the Bible that contradicts your position is discarded.
Yes, I located a study in England that found a five point difference between 10 year olds who were vegetarians and those who ate meat. [High IQ link to being vegetarian]. I know, five points isn't a great difference, but as you see from the headline the reporters like to make sound earth shattering. I always look for the side comments, such as this one, "There was no difference in IQ score between strict vegetarians and those who said they were vegetarian but who reported eating fish or chicken." Now that should give a person pause since eating fish and chicken isn't vegetarian, and yet gives the same small advantage. One should also look to see if the cause and effect is direct or can be explained by other factors, such as "Researchers said the findings were partly related to better education and higher occupational social class, but it remained statistically significant after adjusting for these factors." And, "Vegetarians were more likely to be female, to be of higher occupational social class and to have higher academic or vocational qualifications than non-vegetarians."
While I will respect your wishes not to get a reply, I have posted this so that others are better prepared to respond to such strange positions.