I was so close today to cutting ties with my girlfriend. Each day something happens and I get more tired of her antics.
Yesterday, we didn't talk all day because my friend was coming over in the morning and in the evening I was leaving to go to an event that was a hour and a half away. The night before she told me to e-mail her to let her know what I'm doing and all. I didn't get home until nearly 2 am and she hadn't replied to my e-mail or anything, and she had told me to call her to let me know I got home okay. I did that and she was so mad†I called her. I kind of feel bad for calling that late, but she told me to call. It's almost like she didn't care if I got home safe or anything. She's been mad at me since then.
Is it wrong of me to ask God to reveal the truth to me about her, no matter what it is? I sometimes worry about her, that there are things she isn't telling me. Examples like she still secretly likes her ex, or she likes someone else. How can I go about doing this?
I don't know if this makes me†a bad person, especially since this all happened before I met her, but I am very uncomfortable knowing the amount of sexual partners she's had. There were four. Two of those people she didn't even date.†The first person was someone she met at a camp and he was even younger than me by one year! They lasted a few months, and then she said she met this older guy on the Internet. She liked him. They talked for about a week and arranged to meet. When they did they also had sex. He went home and she says she never heard from him again. She never saw him again or anything. She said it's almost like he fell off the face of the earth. She still wonders why he took off like that.
Then the third person was her friend. They had met at a group meeting and then one time she says it "just happened."
The fourth person is the biological father of her child. She also met him on the Internet. They arranged to meet two days later at the mall and she went to his house later that night and it also "just happened." She found out she was pregnant by him within two weeks. He claims the child is not his and wants a paternity test.
I don't know if it makes me a bad person for being so uncomfortable with that. But it is hard sometimes looking at my girlfriend after she's told me these things. Is this wrong of me? Is this a warning sign also? If so, how?
God gives each of us a free-will. That means we have the right and ability to make our own choices. So if we choose to do something stupid or sinful, God isn't going to stop us. He teaches us through His Bible how to make good choices, but it means we have to actually listen.
"Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of the noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech: "How long will you simple ones love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge? If you had responded to my rebuke, I would have poured out my heart to you and made my thoughts known to you. But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you-- when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you. Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me. Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD, since they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke, they will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes. For the waywardness of the simple will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them; but whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of harm."" (Proverbs 1:20-33).
One of the things Proverbs contains is warnings concerning the immoral woman.
"When wisdom enters your heart, and knowledge is pleasant to your soul, discretion will preserve you; understanding will keep you, to deliver you from the way of evil, from the man who speaks perverse things, from those who leave the paths of uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness; who rejoice in doing evil, and delight in the perversity of the wicked; whose ways are crooked, and who are devious in their paths; to deliver you from the immoral woman, from the seductress who flatters with her words, who forsakes the companion of her youth, and forgets the covenant of her God. For her house leads down to death, and her paths to the dead; none who go to her return, nor do they regain the paths of life" (Proverbs 2:10-19).
"My son, pay attention to my wisdom; lend your ear to my understanding, that you may preserve discretion, and your lips may keep knowledge. For the lips of an immoral woman drip honey, and her mouth is smoother than oil; but in the end she is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword. Her feet go down to death, her steps lay hold of hell. Lest you ponder her path of life - her ways are unstable; you do not know them. Therefore hear me now, my children, and do not depart from the words of my mouth. Remove your way far from her, and do not go near the door of her house, lest you give your honor to others, and your years to the cruel one; lest aliens be filled with your wealth, and your labors go to the house of a foreigner; and you mourn at last, when your flesh and your body are consumed, and say: "How I have hated instruction, And my heart despised correction! I have not obeyed the voice of my teachers, nor inclined my ear to those who instructed me! I was on the verge of total ruin, In the midst of the assembly and congregation"" (Proverbs 5:1-14).
"My son, keep my words, and treasure my commands within you. Keep my commands and live, and my law as the apple of your eye. Bind them on your fingers; write them on the tablet of your heart. Say to wisdom, "You are my sister," and call understanding your nearest kin, that they may keep you from the immoral woman, from the seductress who flatters with her words" (Proverbs 7:1-5).
I don't know your girlfriend. I don't know if she has learned from her past mistakes or if she is excusing them. It saddens me that she said at least two of those occasions were something that "just happened." Sex doesn't "just happen." It might not be what she initially intended; it might have gone further than she wanted it to go; but it did just happen. To make such a claim almost sounds like the clothes accidentally came off and the guy stumbled and accidentally put his penis in her. I think you realize that sex isn't something that accidentally happens.
While I haven't mentioned this before, in most states a person above the age of 18 who has sex with someone below the age of 18 (usually with a caveat that there is more than two years difference in age) is considered rape by the law. Under the law, a person under the age of majority (18 in most states) cannot give consent to sex with an adult, whether they were willing or not. The likelihood that this woman would be prosecuted is remote, but this is what has been snagging far too many teachers in the last few years. Nor does it matter if the adult is male or female, the law still calls it statutory rape.
What bothers me is that she has a pattern of picking up guys and is willing to have sex with men (and boys) she barely knows. And you don't give any indication that she thinks what she did was wrong or that she was at fault.
I know it is flattering for a young man, such as yourself, to be wanted by an older woman. Especially when young women your age won't give you the time of day because they think boys their own age "are so immature." What I'm thankful for is that you appear to be moving out of the infatuation stage of the relationship and starting to see reality. The problem is that you don't like what you are seeing -- and for good reasons.
So let's try to separate your emotions from the situation for the moment. Suppose that you found out that your best friend claimed to be in love with a woman who has a history of sleeping around with men she barely knew. What would you tell your friend? Suppose it is twenty years from now and you found out your teenage son was seeing a woman who is known to be sleeping around with men she barely knew. What would you tell him? The reason for these scenarios is that most people are more tolerant of their own bad judgments than they are in the bad judgments made by other people.
I'm curious why you think facing reality makes you a bad person. I would think you would be foolish (or if you rather, "bad") if you see that you are dating someone who is "no good," but you continue anyway. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you made a mistake. That is why you date people (without sex). Then as you get to know them better you can decide if this is the person you want to marry. You are bound to miss your guess as to which type of person is most suitable. After all, you are only a teenager. You don't have a huge amount of experience yet. But learn from the experience. Just because a girl falls over herself trying to get your attention doesn't mean she is a suitable life-partner. Actually, those types of girls are most often the least suitable because they rarely are interested in sticking with one man.
You might find a woman one day and learn that she had a bad past. But if she demonstrates that it truly was her past and that she has made radical changes in her life, then there is no reason not to consider her for a partner. I have know several people who have made a radical conversion to Christ and are now wonderful husbands and wives. But don't beat yourself up that you were blind to this for a while and didn't see this lack of change in your girlfriend. That is why time dating is so important.
I wasn't sure if it made me a foolish person for being extremely uncomfortable with the number of guys my girlfriend has slept with.†I mean, after all, all four of those guys happened within a 6 month period. She claims that she regrets sleeping with the two that she didn't date, but I'm not so sure she's learned from her past. Because the first day I met her, she was ready to be sexual with me. I turned it down, because it just didn't feel right. I also get annoyed when she says that things "just happened."
I agree with you on that, sex doesn't just happen. She makes it out to be an accident, as if she didn't know what was going on.
Another thing, is when she talks about her baby's father, she says it's not her fault she has a baby. I laugh and ask, "How is it not your fault? You didn't just wake up with a baby inside you." And she tells me that he was so controlling and said if she didn't sleep with him, he'd go and find someone else. But it's not like he demanded her to sleep with him without protection. I don't get her sometimes, she seems gullible. But what I'm wondering. Knowing all of this, like her past sexual partners and the fact that they all happened close together and two of those people she didn't date, if I continue on in this relationship, could knowing this effect me in any way? Like her possibly being unfaithful to me? I'm not sure if this is a good indication of how she could possibly be in the future.
And another few things I'm wondering, is why some guys will sleep with†a girl and then get away from her as quickly as they can, only to never contact them again, or be heard from them?
And when I was talking to you about my girlfriend moving into that house, before she changed her mind, how come you said that if she were to move in, I should seriously consider ending things? I've asked people and they say "Because it'll never get better, things will get worse" but I have no idea how to think up an example of how it could have gotten worse than that.
Jesus once said, "For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks" (Luke 6:44-45). What he is saying is that we can tell a lot about who a person is inside by paying attention to what they do and what they say. People are more consistent than you might suspect.
You told me that your girlfriend had sex with four men, two of which she bedded on the first meeting. You've confirmed that
- She doesn't see it being wrong or bad for at least two of them.
- She tried to get you to drop your pants on your first date.
- She excuses fornication as accidents.
- She excuses getting pregnant because she had to do it to keep him from leaving. (And he left anyway.)
- She did most of this in a time frame of only a few months.
What I'm trying to get you to see is that she is being consistent in her behavior. You've given me no indication that she made a serious change in her outlook on life, so I must assume she still accepts her past behaviors. Therefore, by her deeds and her actions I would expect her to continue to behave in a similar manner in the future. If she were to behave differently, I would expect to first see some indication of a major shift in her thinking.
Recall that you said that she didn't put much effort into finding a place to live, but when later asked, she said that she was desperate to move as soon as possible. That tells me she isn't truthful -- her deeds and her words did not match.
Then there is the situation itself. She meets a guy on the Internet and with little information was willing to move into his house. That tells me she is impulsive and that she hasn't changed her attitude about sex with strangers. While she can claim that this wasn't her intentions, her actions show that she didn't see anything wrong with a single woman moving into the house of a single man whom she did not know. In other words she is following the same pattern as she had done in the past.
I really wish we could sit down and discuss this in detail. There are so many things you need to know. But then we probably could talk for weeks on end and still not cover everything.
I gave you several passages from Proverbs in my last note. One of the things Solomon did with Proverbs is give people insight as to how people behave. A woman who seduces men is described here: "A foolish woman is clamorous; she is simple, and knows nothing. For she sits at the door of her house, on a seat by the highest places of the city, to call to those who pass by, who go straight on their way: "Whoever is simple, let him turn in here"; and as for him who lacks understanding, she says to him, "Stolen water is sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant." But he does not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of hell" (Proverbs 9:13-18). Most men have a strong desire to be the knight in shining armor who rides in to rescue the damsel in distress. Some women take advantage of that either knowingly or accidentally stumbling upon a routine that works. They present themselves as the victim, simple minded, and innocent. It creates a desire in men to protect her. She then fans that ember of desire into flames of passion and snags the man she wants. This type of woman preys on men who don't use their heads to see what she is actually doing. And they don't realize the end result. One of the distractions used is playing on the fact that you know what you are doing is wrong. But the excitement of doing something naughty adds extra to the sexual excitement. And the plain fact of the matter is that a guy who is sexually excited doesn't think clearly.
Your girlfriend is using those techniques on you. You have enough hints to say "something is not right," but you don't have enough experience to pinpoint where the danger lies. Notice that you say "she seems gullible." The baby was the fault of a man threatening to dump her. She ends up with men in bed by accident. In all these ways, and I'm sure you could name many more, she plays the role of an innocent victim, which makes you want to rescue her. From there she started flirting with you to get you sexually aroused, knowing that once you were willing to have sex with her you would not easily leave her. But women like this easily tire of their boy toys and start looking for new excitement. That is how I guessed that she was showing signs of losing interest in you.
You ask that if you continue this relationship, will it affect you in any way. My response is that it already has affected you in many ways.
Is it possible that she will be unfaithful to you? I think it is very likely. In fact, I would be surprised if she could stick to one man for very long (unless she makes a major change in her thinking).
Why do some men run after they've had sex? Because that was all they wanted. They weren't interested in her as a person. As long as they can get sex with no obligations, they will stay. But as soon as there is any indication of responsibility or being tied down, they will run to the next willing girl. Guys like this are only interested in ejaculating. Since they don't care about the girl, they don't keep in contact. Actually, they are afraid of maintaining contact because she might tie them down with things like child support. From what you told me, she has a strong desire to have control over a relationship and this would be the very thing these men would run away from. She is using sex as a way to gain and attempt to keep a guy's interest. The fact that it only works for a short while doesn't stop her from trying it again with the next guy.
How can it get worse? You could ignore all the evidence and keep seeing her. Meanwhile, she will start seeing other guys on the side and not caring that they dump her because you're always there when she wants you. If she gets pregnant, she always has "Mr. Reliable" to blame for the child. If that guy was pushing drugs, she could end up a druggie and using quickies to pay for her next fix. There are tons of ways things can get worse. Will these things happen? I don't know. I just want you to realize that though this looked like a major disaster, the ability for things get worse always exist.
I just don't want you getting yourself hurt over this. I'm only getting bits and pieces and everything is adding up all wrong. This isn't something that is fixable. "A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself, but the simple pass on and are punished" (Proverbs 22:3). It is one thing to miss the warnings, it is foolish to see the warning signs and then continue on.
This is really making more sense to me.
Reflecting on things now, I truly see that she hasn't learned from her past. The fact that she didn't really see anything wrong with moving into a house with a older man she doesn't even know proves this; you are right. And when I was going through a lot, trying to convince her not to move in the house, I had a hard time sleeping at night. I had this thought jump into my mind: I had a thought that this guy raped her; and she became pregnant by this; obviously she refused to get an abortion because she, like I, believe it is wrong; and she came to me to help her raise this child. I could not do that.
I'm really unsure with her. This has made me think of a few things. Like we've talked about, you believe it's highly likely she could become unfaithful to me due to the reasons I've listed. (For example: sleeping with men she hardly knows, and never dated, sometimes on the first day of meeting.) This made me think of something she told me: she said that I'm her first boyfriend she has had where she didn't like someone else. That made me uncomfortable knowing that she had feelings for another man in her past even while having a current boyfriend.
I'm really curious if she'd be unfaithful to me when it comes to another man, I don't know if she would be. She claims that I mean too much to her to do that. But I don't know. Things like we've talked about make me think otherwise. I'd like to pray to God, asking if she'd be unfaithful to me, but I'm unsure about how to do this. How do you think I should ask Him about this? I know they say "be careful what you wish for," but†I believe I'm ready to know the answer, even if it should be one that points to her not being faithful to me. I believe I'm ready for this because lately I've come to realize things that I didn't before. I'm finally seeing the light and reality.
So we've come full circle back to the original question, but you missed the point -- you already know the answer. It would be proper if you don't know something or what choice to make for wisdom and help from God in making a good decision. But to always ask for a sign from God before making any decision is a way of avoiding responsibility of the choices we must make.
Let me illustrate this from Jesus' life. "Then the Pharisees came out and began to dispute with Him, seeking from Him a sign from heaven, testing Him. But He sighed deeply in His spirit, and said, "Why does this generation seek a sign? Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation"" (Mark 8:11-12). The reason Jesus refused is because the Pharisees were refusing to see the obvious. Jesus taught them with the authority of God -- to the point they were afraid to ask him questions. He did miracles, which many didn't personally witness, but there were plenty of witnesses to attest that the miracles took place. The Law prophesied of Jesus' life and he was fulfilling those prophecies. Yet none of these were enough. They demanded yet another sign.
My point is that you may ask God for a sign, but He may decide that He has told you enough already and if you won't pay attention to that, additional signs won't help. We need to remember who we are and who God is. We are not in the position to make demands of God, or to blame God if our demands are not met. That is why Paul said many people refused to believe the Gospel. "Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God" (I Corinthians 1:20-24). We cannot put ourselves in a position where we are basically telling God that what He has done isn't good enough.
You're past the point of infatuation. You see characteristics in your girlfriend that disturbs you. You see that she exhibited certain disturbing behaviors in the past. You see that she still has the same tendencies. You know that she hasn't changed. I've shown you what God has told us about women whom you agree matches your girlfriend. And God warned what the consequence is if you ignore these facts: "But he does not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of hell" (Proverbs 9:18).
The problem is not that the information isn't there. The problem is you don't want to believe the evidence. Personally, I would have left after she tried to be sexual on the first date. That would have been more than enough evidence for me. I know you have hopes that it would be different with you, but the evidence keeps piling up.
I've seen people who marry and then when their spouse runs off with another, or drinks constantly, or uses drugs, or gambles the household budget away tell me that it took them totally by surprise. Yet, as I talk to them I find out there were all sorts of evidence while they were dating, but the evidence was dismissed. The drunkard had problems with bouts of heavy drinking -- but she believe him that it wasn't a common event. He knew she was using drugs, but she gave it up. Yes, he notice she was using marijuana to calm her nerves, but that wasn't anything major. The reason we date is to get to know people before we commit our lives to them. It is foolish and prideful to continue despite the evidence that it won't work.
There isn't just one girl out there that will make a great wife for you. There are thousands with whom you can happily live with for the rest of your life. Trust God will help you find a woman who is suitable. But trying to force a bad relationship to continue because you had thought that she was your one and only is not profitable to you. Though you appear to have made a mistake, count it as a learning experience. Your eyes have been opened. You now know that what you think at the beginning is not always an accurate view. You have been given experience that it is important to take time to get to know a person. Don't dismiss the importance of those lessons even though it hurts.
"And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Therefore strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed. Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled" (Hebrews 12:5-15).
So what you are saying is (sorry if I'm wrong) that if I continue with this relationship, something could take me by surprise even though there's already plenty of evidence that points it out? I've been told that God has given me plenty of warning signs in this relationship, but subconsciously I refuse to see them or hear Him calling. My mom worries about me a lot. She sees how stressed out I am sometimes, and she doesn't want this to continue before something happens that really bothers me. Another thing that I haven't told anyone about, not even my sisters, my mom, dad or any of my friends was that in March she told me she wanted a three-some. That kind of freaked me out a lot, but she assures me now thats not what she wants.
It appears that what I'm saying matches what quite a few other people have also told you. If you continue this relationship and something bad happens, you can't claim that it was a surprise because the evidence has been there all along and people have been pointing it out to you. Of course, you might still say it was a surprise and that you didn't see it coming, but the real truth would be that you didn't want to see it coming. I'm trying to figure out why you are holding on. You see, everything I know about this relationship is through you. I'm looking at it, in a sense, through your eyes. You've told me enough that would have sent most decent young men running long ago, but you remain and want to know if God has a bigger stick to hit you over the head with to make you realize that this relationship is no good. Think long and hard about this: why are you trying to force this relationship to continue? Honestly, what is holding you to her?
"A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself, but the simple pass on and are punished" (Proverbs 22:3).
I suspect that I know what's holding you back. I've noticed that you have given all sorts of hints that you have been having sex with her. And while I've asked a few times directly, you have given me truthful but indirect answers, such as "I turned her down when she asked for sex on our first date." Since I know you've seen her a lot, that leaves plenty of times you didn't turn her down. Your mentioning that she wants to try a three-some told me that she was getting bored of two-some sex with you. Am I right? Are you ready to come clean?
If you think that I'll get mad or despise you for what you may have done, the answer is "No, I won't." I want the best for you. I want to see you get to heaven. I understand the strength of Satan's temptations. I understand we all get trapped, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). My desire is to help people, such as yourself, out of those traps so you can live a better life.
"My son, give me your heart, and let your eyes observe my ways. For a harlot is a deep pit, and a seductress is a narrow well. She also lies in wait as for a victim, and increases the unfaithful among men" (Proverbs 23:26-28).
Truthfully here, I did a lot with her before, and then I limited it and now it's slowly turning into not at all. The thing I don't get is that she didn't directly tell me she wanted a three-some, it was something I overheard her say to someone. When I called her up on it, she knew I was freaked out by it because the thought of her with someone else in that regard does not help me sleep any better at night. She told me she "worded it wrong." Even lately she tells me she doesn't want a three-some at all because she doesn't want to "share" me as she puts it. But I don't know, I don't want her to feel like I'm boring in any kind of way.
A steak dinner cook to perfection is wonderful to eat, but if you had it three meals a day, every day of the week, every month of the year, it loses its specialness. I'm not degrading your ability in sex. I'm pointing out that you are being given hints that she finds novelty exciting and you are no longer new. Because they go down the wrong path, some people equate sexual excitement to love -- never realizing that they are two very different things. I believe your girlfriend doesn't understand this and I suspect that you don't fully grasp it either.
The sexual excitement caused by the newness of a relationship always dies down for the simple reason that no relationship can remain new. Because of this, people who confuse sexual excitement with love decide they have fallen out of love and so they begin looking for new venues. Since those venues are new, they decide that they were mistaken before and now they are really in love. Thus, they are constantly trying to hold on to something that never lasts. This is why I and others are telling you that she is highly likely to be moving on to another guy. So long as she is looking for excitement and not love, she won't ever settle down with one man for a long period of time.
But the reason I wanted to get this into the open is to return to a point I made earlier. Sex creates bonds between two people. "Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh."" (I Corinthians 6:16). Paul's point is that becoming one flesh is creating a bond between two people. Even when the expectation of sex is brief, such as with a prostitute, that bond is created. The reason you are reluctant to end this relationship is because that bond exists. You keep hoping that you can make it work out even though logically you know it isn't going to work unless she makes some major changes -- something she hasn't indicated she is willing to do.
The second reason for wanting to get this out is that I need you to understand that as fun as it might have been, sex outside of marriage is a sin (Hebrews 13:4). You started by asking me about praying to God about getting a sign whether to remain in this relationship -- but this relationship is a sin at its very foundation. "Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him" (John 9:31). I'm wondering if Satan has somehow deceived you into thinking you could work against God and still have God's help at the same time. "Then they will cry to the LORD, But He will not hear them; He will even hide His face from them at that time, Because they have been evil in their deeds" (Micah 3:4).